Rose and John Cole are gracious, hospitable, internet hosts. Rose just recently posed a question asked by a frequent contributer, Colin Maxwell, aka "goodnightsafehome", from a previous discussion,
Here is how I answer the question.
At one point, only God existed in eternity. God, in all eternity, knew what, how, and why he was going to create the universe along with all the ramifications of it. God's knowledge was complete, perfect, and good -- because God is complete, perfect, and good. Because God's knowledge was complete and perfect, he did not at any point say, I wonder what will happen if..., then muse and ruminate over it, then think, hmmm, how about if I do this..., then ruminate over that, and then pick what the universe would be like and how he would act in its creation and his providential care of it. Because if he did, his knowledge before that point would not be complete. God would not have been omniscient. God's being and character are unchangeable -- thus God was/is/will be always omniscient.
God, being perfect and omnipotent, also had perfectly set his thoughts and plans from all eternity. There are many alternative ways in which God could have planned everything -- but God had perfectly arranged in his mind all that will be.
So, before the foundation of the world, God had arranged in his mind -- to use an anthropomorphic analogy (remember, God is eternal and arranging his mind is tenseless, it is always been arranged as he desired) -- that Adam would fall, that sin would enter the world, that Christ would be arrested, that Peter would deny Christ, that the disciples would flee Christ, that Pilate would pronounce the death sentence on Christ and have him crucified.
These are logical necessities of a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent God. No matter how you dice it and slice it, I don't see how you can get around it, unless you deny some basic feature of the classically known attributes of God -- such as done in Open Theism.
In the past, various theologians have tried to get around the problem -- including Molinism and "Middle Knowledge" -- but that is a theory that the Bible is silent about and really ends up with a predetermined universe anyway -- at least how one of the major Protestant proponents of Molinism, William Lane Craig, presents it.
Others have tried to say that God chooses people who will choose God. However, that is a linguistic convenience -- because God from all eternity had arranged his thoughts so that, by logical necessity, determined who will choose him.
A Calvinist at this point will say that we have no theory of why God chooses, other than in one sense it pleased him (using an anthropomorphic analogy) in his perfect and good will to have things happen this way and that God does things for his glory and the good of his people. Does this mean that God takes delight in punishing people? No. Understanding God requires much more subtle and nuanced thinking than trying to force extremes out these logical results in understanding God.
Asking the question, could Pilate have done anything other than what God had planned? The question actually has multiple senses to it, which makes it an ambiguous question. This is part of the problem with arguments in theology -- people are not precise in what they say AND there is a point where our reasoning cannot take us further.
The question, could Pilate have done anything other than what God had planned? has at least these possible meanings:
(1) Logically speaking, could Pilate have done anything else other than what God had in his mind about Pilate from all eternity?
(2) Physically and emotionally, was there anything that was preventing Pilate from acquitting Christ?
(3) In Pilate's spiritual condition, was Pilate able to do the right thing?
The answer to (1) is no. This follows from God's omniscience and omnipotence in arranging all things so that the answer follows just as you prove a theorem in geometry.
The answer to (2) is no. There is nothing in Pilate's physical nature and condition that made him condemn Christ. Pilate was under pressure from the leaders and people around him, but Pilate was not coerced in some ultimate sense. He was free to do as he wished.
The answer to (3) is no. Pilate was in enmity and rebellion against God. As Romans 3 points out, this is the natural condition of all human kind. This, along with the freedom of coercion, makes all of us guilty before God -- and all of us deserve death. God is not required to intervene to save us from our rebellion -- precisely because we deserve it. This part is hard to understand in today's society, because we don't really believe we all deserve death. We think God owes us a chance -- but if we think in any way like this, then we are saying we don't deserve death.
God was not required to step in and apply grace to Pilate -- just as God was not required to apply grace to your life. You deserve death. That means God did not have to send Jesus to die for you whatsoever.
But blessed are you that you do see, that Jesus did die for you. To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God. Rejoice and marvel at God being for you and rescuing you -- when you did not deserve it at all.
Yes or No – Answer first and then qualify afterwards, Could Pilate have said “No” to the Jews’ demand to have Christ crucified and let Him go?
Here is how I answer the question.
At one point, only God existed in eternity. God, in all eternity, knew what, how, and why he was going to create the universe along with all the ramifications of it. God's knowledge was complete, perfect, and good -- because God is complete, perfect, and good. Because God's knowledge was complete and perfect, he did not at any point say, I wonder what will happen if..., then muse and ruminate over it, then think, hmmm, how about if I do this..., then ruminate over that, and then pick what the universe would be like and how he would act in its creation and his providential care of it. Because if he did, his knowledge before that point would not be complete. God would not have been omniscient. God's being and character are unchangeable -- thus God was/is/will be always omniscient.
God, being perfect and omnipotent, also had perfectly set his thoughts and plans from all eternity. There are many alternative ways in which God could have planned everything -- but God had perfectly arranged in his mind all that will be.
So, before the foundation of the world, God had arranged in his mind -- to use an anthropomorphic analogy (remember, God is eternal and arranging his mind is tenseless, it is always been arranged as he desired) -- that Adam would fall, that sin would enter the world, that Christ would be arrested, that Peter would deny Christ, that the disciples would flee Christ, that Pilate would pronounce the death sentence on Christ and have him crucified.
These are logical necessities of a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent God. No matter how you dice it and slice it, I don't see how you can get around it, unless you deny some basic feature of the classically known attributes of God -- such as done in Open Theism.
In the past, various theologians have tried to get around the problem -- including Molinism and "Middle Knowledge" -- but that is a theory that the Bible is silent about and really ends up with a predetermined universe anyway -- at least how one of the major Protestant proponents of Molinism, William Lane Craig, presents it.
Others have tried to say that God chooses people who will choose God. However, that is a linguistic convenience -- because God from all eternity had arranged his thoughts so that, by logical necessity, determined who will choose him.
A Calvinist at this point will say that we have no theory of why God chooses, other than in one sense it pleased him (using an anthropomorphic analogy) in his perfect and good will to have things happen this way and that God does things for his glory and the good of his people. Does this mean that God takes delight in punishing people? No. Understanding God requires much more subtle and nuanced thinking than trying to force extremes out these logical results in understanding God.
Asking the question, could Pilate have done anything other than what God had planned? The question actually has multiple senses to it, which makes it an ambiguous question. This is part of the problem with arguments in theology -- people are not precise in what they say AND there is a point where our reasoning cannot take us further.
The question, could Pilate have done anything other than what God had planned? has at least these possible meanings:
(1) Logically speaking, could Pilate have done anything else other than what God had in his mind about Pilate from all eternity?
(2) Physically and emotionally, was there anything that was preventing Pilate from acquitting Christ?
(3) In Pilate's spiritual condition, was Pilate able to do the right thing?
The answer to (1) is no. This follows from God's omniscience and omnipotence in arranging all things so that the answer follows just as you prove a theorem in geometry.
The answer to (2) is no. There is nothing in Pilate's physical nature and condition that made him condemn Christ. Pilate was under pressure from the leaders and people around him, but Pilate was not coerced in some ultimate sense. He was free to do as he wished.
The answer to (3) is no. Pilate was in enmity and rebellion against God. As Romans 3 points out, this is the natural condition of all human kind. This, along with the freedom of coercion, makes all of us guilty before God -- and all of us deserve death. God is not required to intervene to save us from our rebellion -- precisely because we deserve it. This part is hard to understand in today's society, because we don't really believe we all deserve death. We think God owes us a chance -- but if we think in any way like this, then we are saying we don't deserve death.
God was not required to step in and apply grace to Pilate -- just as God was not required to apply grace to your life. You deserve death. That means God did not have to send Jesus to die for you whatsoever.
But blessed are you that you do see, that Jesus did die for you. To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God. Rejoice and marvel at God being for you and rescuing you -- when you did not deserve it at all.
4 comments:
Excellent post.Hopefully those who are discussing this elsewhere will come here and take a look.Since there was reference to Acts 4:27-28 I would like to list part of what it says.v.28....to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done..NKJV...To do whatever thy hand and thy counsel determined to be done...KJV...to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur...NASB.
It seems pretty obvious to me were this going.
Pilate did what was purposed before the world began.He did it also because he was wicked and wanted to do it.
w.w.p.d.
w.w.p.d. -- I almost titled the posting with that. :o)
I published basically the same thing on the other website. I don't think many grasp the significance of the three senses the question contains.
What gets me is those who, in order to give man the freewill that they think he needs/has, they must go beyond scripture, and, according to their logic,remove Gods ability to see the future.
As we know, God does a lot more than just see the future.He has ordered all things for His Glory.
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